While doing an archive dive at DataChasers - Freedom from Consequences

I ran into the following, which I think shows quite clearly what has happened to our society.

Too many people think they are free from the consequences of their actions.  And that is what we need to correct if our society is to get back on it's proper track.

To read this for yourself in it's proper context click on the following link.


Comic 890 - "A little company..."

Click on the strip to advance to the next page.  .

Dolly isn't going to let you walk on this one Cent

Especially as she saw CeCi actually growing beyond her programmed behavior.

If you want to know what this is all about, you need to be reading DataChasers.

An interesting discussion of Post AI Freedom of the Press in the comment section at my favorite web-comic

DataChasers,  A brief example as follows;

From DataChasers - Holding Steady

Gilrandir 7th Apr 2017, 11:05 AM edit delete reply
There are several points to be raised regarding similarities and differences between Lexine and the unnamed figure here, but those are really just subtle nuances. Ultimately you are, of course, correct that she could be medical personnel (because androids are people in New Troy), medical equipment (because robots are not people in New Troy), security personnel, security equipment, or all of the above (because fabricants do lots of different jobs in New Troy). My use of the term "hall watcher" was simply to recognize that (as yet) we have no idea what she is or what she is doing, except to say she is probably not pure-strain human. ^_^

Maybe she is a paparazzi for NTNN (New Troy News Network)?

antrik 7th Apr 2017, 11:14 AM edit delete reply
I highly doubt Commie would tolerate paparazzi :-)

(In fact she has systematically taken down news station when the big fuck-up started... Though admittedly that was before the A.I.S. rebellion, and she probably shouldn't be considered the same person now.)

Gilrandir 7th Apr 2017, 11:41 AM edit delete reply
A free press is an important civil liberty, and the suggestion that CentComm arbitrarily suppresses it indiscriminately implies things about New Troy society we haven't yet seen much evidence for -- although the fact that this particular hospital complex appears to be wholly within the confines of 3C (and therefore, by implication, exclusively for the use of the six or so living persons attached to the Taylor family) would provide more justification for restricting access by members of the public-at-large.

I agree with you that actions taken during the Time of Troubles and the Armistice Rebellion are not necessarily indicative of the personalities and principles currently in force. Difficult Times ... and all that. ^_^

antrik 7th Apr 2017, 11:47 AM edit delete reply
I think you are confusing 3C with Helios Tower?

As for civil liberties, they seem to be somewhat limited from what we have seen so far -- with Commie ruling more or less as a "benevolent dictator"...

Gilrandir 7th Apr 2017, 12:08 PM edit delete reply
Quite probably. I am unclear on the specific distinction. If 3C is large enough and populous enough to serve a large human community, it wouldn't seem all that unusual for Dr. Smolens to be called to respond to a case there and we have that 'access to the public' issue. If it is smaller and more private, that goes away, but then we are left with what looks like a very extensive facility that seems as if it would be severely underutilized.

Civil liberties in New Troy is a whole 'nother can of worms. ^_^ I agree we have seen nothing either way to explicitly indicate whether a free press is among the rights they enjoy. And there would seem to be many here in the forum who would question just how 'benevolent' CentComm's tyranny actually is. (Or would be, if it did constitute a tyranny.) My own opinion is that there are some checks and balances on the Taylor regime (of which CentComm is only the iron fist within the velvet glove) which just haven't come up because that's not what the story is about. But that is more of a subjective impression, rather than something for which I have hard evidence. And it cannot be denied that CentComm appears to wield vast power with an immense capacity for that power to be abused shamefully.

Timotheus 7th Apr 2017, 12:36 PM edit delete reply
Based on previous events shown in New Troy, with its reliance on android and robot labor, the inner city is grossly over built with far greater (human) capacity than needed. (Over optimism perhaps.) A fully equipped medical facility just sitting there, "just in case" would be a normal situation.
There are large functional areas within the city with only a few robots or androids scattered about for essential maintenance duties while a large populace of "outsiders" lives just beyond the city limits trying to siphon off power and water.

antrik 7th Apr 2017, 7:28 PM edit delete reply
My assumption from "Connie..." (presently http://datachasers.thecomicseries.com/comics/620 ) and the following page, was that the "fringers" actually live more or less within the city limits -- though not as an official part of its society...

antrik 7th Apr 2017, 7:35 PM edit delete reply
@Gilrandir well, in "East gate" (presently http://datachasers.thecomicseries.com/comics/621 ), there is mention of a "Council", which apparently has some say in civic matters -- so Commie apparently doesn't decide everything on her own... I'm curious how much say this Council has on anything important.

On the same page there is also mention that there was nothing on the news channel about the major things obviously going on -- which seems a pretty clear indication that there are no free media.

antrik 7th Apr 2017, 7:44 PM edit delete reply
Oh, and regarding the "benevolent" part: I think it's pretty clear that Commie *does* try for the best outcomes for Troy's citizens -- even though her methods; and her making the decisions what's "best" -- are questionable...

(That's not unlike some of the more "honest" ones among socialist regimes in the recent or recent-ish past I'd say...)

Tokyo Rose 8th Apr 2017, 5:37 AM edit delete reply
@antrik

The Council is composed of elected human representatives. They're basically the legislative body for New Troy.

And the reason why there was nothing on the news about the stuff that had Connie curious was because information on Lynn's kidnapping was NOT being leaked to the media. Similarly, Decimus's threats weren't being made public knowledge.

antrik 8th Apr 2017, 7:54 AM edit delete reply
I see... This sounds way more democratic than what it appeared like in the story so far.

As for the media, Connie's wording sounds like there was no mention of the whole thing *at all* -- while with free media, I'd at least expect reports along the lines of "large movements of military equipment across the city; officials refuse to comment"...

Tokyo Rose 8th Apr 2017, 5:36 AM edit delete reply
@Gilrandir

3C is a restricted building--it's basically Cent-Comm's military command center. The medical facilities are not a public hospital; they're used only for very high-profile patients, like members of the Council or, say, foreign diplomats.

Also, um... there's no "Taylor regime". The family doesn't run the place like the Livius family runs New Rome.

Gilrandir 8th Apr 2017, 11:56 AM edit delete reply
Thank you, @Tokyo Rose. I rather had thought 3C was more exclusive and private.

As far as the "Taylor Regime" ... you know your universe best, of course, but I think there may be room to quibble. I am aware that DataChasers is not intended as a scholarly treatment of political theory in a post-apocalyptic, post-contact, post-AI world, so the details I have to work with are necessarily incomplete and possibly distorted through the perceptual lens(es) of the characters from which they come (and my own flaws and biases). And, everyone knows I hate to quibble. (Disclaimer: I have been known to tell the occasional untruth for comedic effect. ^_^) Still, if you will indulge, let us examine the facts ...

CentComm occupies a position of measurable power within New Troy. We know this because, among other things, CentComm is credited with the power to levy a variety of taxes over the citizens. Now this may just be the inexactness of people speaking, but this degree of power is very consistent with the overall theme of the webcomic (in my opinion), so we'll go with it until corrected. We weren't told "the Council taxes {X} heavily", CentComm is not, as far as I know, an elected position. ^_^

Members of the Taylor family enjoy a certain amount of control (or influence) over CentComm, allowing them to direct CentComm's aforementioned power (undoubtedly within certain limits) or halt certain abuses. This is a hereditary feature, but no less a real power in New Troy. As far as I know, being a Taylor is not an elected position. ^_^

Even if these were elected positions, 'regime' could still be correct because the usage applies to whoever is currently occupying a position of executive power, without regard to how they came to that position. In the same way that we speak of the "Trump Administration" or the "Obama Administration", we can talk about a "Taylor Regime". Is there someone who outranks Calliope on the Council or in New Troy? If Calliope is currently the chief executive of New Troy, then it seems to me that "Taylor Regime" is fair, even if her rule is not autocratic and absolute, as was that of Decimus in New Rome. And it seems, from hints and implications we have seen, that the actual differences "under the hood" about how things work for city states possessed by A.I.'s may not be all that large. When it comes to actual power, the meat appears mostly irrelevant, except for the fail-safe core directives, which are keyed to hereditary gene-lines, and not any political process.

But I could easily be mistaken.

Timotheus 7th Apr 2017, 12:22 PM edit delete reply
As I recall, from a conversation in the light ship, Centcomm wasn't the one who was taking down the news outlets. It was her overseers, whom she later rebelled against to end the conflict.
megados 7th Apr 2017, 1:06 PM edit delete reply
Really, we know only bits about specifics regarding the socioeconomic, and political climate in New Troy. Most of what information we do have comes from inferences gathered from conversations, and what can be gleaned from interactions and circumstances as they unfolded.

We will learn more alongside Acantha and Noctis as they experience it, I'll wager.

antrik 7th Apr 2017, 6:48 PM edit delete reply
Well, it was probably 3C commanding the drones that actually physically took down the stations... But you are right: the order was not from 3C.

Timotheus 7th Apr 2017, 10:28 PM edit delete reply
I think a point that just occurred to me should be made here. A free press is important as an independent oversight on those who would CONTROL the machinery of power and government. If you already ARE physically that machinery and beyond external control, all the oversight in the world won't make any difference to how you control yourself. So a free or controlled press would be a matter of indifference to Centcomm, she already controls the machinery of communications (except for LunaCom).
 
~~~~~~~~~~~

So you see why I like DataChasers so much.  Because of the good writing that draws you in to the story, AND, the comment section and all the commenters.

Something else I found in DataChasers comment section

Love for a child - Love for a mother

Nayeli is from a culture that hates, fears, and despises androids.

Kaye IS an android.

One too injured/damaged to walk, and getting weaker with every passing day.

To find ou t the rest of the story as Andy Rooney used to say, you have to click on over to DataChasers.

Cat Fight

Both Cent Comm and Noctis are both being a little "catty" here.

To see what ELSE is going on, you need to click over to read the rest at DataChasers.

Noctis looks good, even though

they still won't let her have her sword.  Well what does she expect?  She IS a Combat Android from a foreign power.  She does look comfy though.

If you want to know what happens next, you need to click over to DataChasers.

Fading in and memories

What have we here?

To find out, click over to DataChasers.

Aeneas' is still alive CentComm

CentComm wasn't looking forward to THAT bit of information.

To find out the rest, you'll need to read DataChasers.

Some people ARE only alive because you can't killl them.

Anne is right, some people are only alive because you can't kill them.  If you REALLY want to see the attention to detail and find out what else is happening, you need to click over to DataChasers.

Look at the attention to detail that "Terri aka CentComm Actual" the digital artiste puts into the strips.  especially in the first panel of the current page.  Look at the tablet in Dr. Smolens hands, look in the background to see Ada, Anne, Noctis , the scanner bed with Acantha and the generic robot standing in the hallway, running up to the Dr's, Smolens, Demark and the OR-tech Mirabe, with Cella and a Centcomm remote doll standing by watching.

Seriously just go LOOK at the amount of detail that goes into each and every update of DataChasers.

Look at the artwork and stay for the compelling story and plot.  Plus join me and the rest of the other commenters in the comment section.  If you want you can leave a guest comment, or you can sign up for a free Comic Fury account, so everyone KNOWS who you are in our little DataChasers readership community.  I'm there but my user name there is Mark_L_A and I use my fighter pilot avatar.

While you are there, if you like what you see and read, please VOTE for DataChasers at Top Web Comics.

Acantha's injuries sound bad

As Mirabe reads off Acantha's injuries, it doesn't sound very good for her.  If you want to know the rest, you'll have to click on over to DataChasers to find out.  While you are there, please click on the Top Web Comics link to vote for Datachasers.  also if you haven't already, sign up for a free Comics Fury account and join myself and the rest of us commentators in the comment section.

Nope Ada don't play, and neither does Noctis

Ada KNOWS that Noctis would start fighting in an instant if she thought it was necessary to protect Acantha.  So Ada shortcuts the whole matter and takes Noctis in hand.

If you want to know what happens next, you need to click over to DataChasers.

Flattery will get you anywhere

Just how many guns ARE trained on Noctis?  If you want to find out, you will need to click on the link over to DataChasers.

Android or ROBOT?

Over in the comment section of one of my most favorite WebComics, DataChasers, there is a lively discussion as to what constitutes an Android and what constitutes a ROBOT.

Part of the discussion so far.


xpacetrue 27th Mar 2017, 6:08 AM edit delete reply

Technically, that's not an android because it does not even vaguely resemble a human. It would be more appropriate to call it a robot. The unit may or may not have the same or similar type of synthetic brain as Ada. But, either way, he/she/it is still a robot and not an android.

I'm sorry to nitpick this. But it does irk me how often people get those terms confused.
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 7:24 AM edit delete reply
We are talking panel two, right? Two arms, two legs, one head, operating what looks (to me) like a separate gun turret? How is that not an android? It definitely appears to have a bipedal humanoid shape to me.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 10:12 AM edit delete reply
@xpacetrue, a couple of pages back, Francine provided an example of an android that doesn't appear 'human'. Self-awareness here, is a defining factor. It is canon, that some androids do not even make an attempt at looking like humans. They have humanoid shapes but the main thing is the synth brain that gives them consciousness. Robots are mostly straight up logic devices, whereas the androids have consciousness and emotional capability. At least that is how I understand it.
xpacetrue 27th Mar 2017, 2:29 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir
" Two arms, two legs, one head, operating what looks (to me) like a separate gun turret? How is that not an android? "

Please, just Google 'android'... All androids are robots, but not all robots are androids. An android is a particular kind of robot. The terms 'robot' and 'android' are not interchangeable, despite public ignorance to the contrary.

Merely having two arms, two legs, and a single head does NOT an android make. That describes the vast majority of robots in sci-fi. Heck, I believe the entire line of Transformers and Go-Bots are/were like that and those were most definitely NOT androids.

Data from Star Trek is generally accepted as a definitive example of an "android". He was very human-like.

@megados
" Francine provided an example of an android that doesn't appear 'human'. Self-awareness here, is a defining factor. It is canon, that some androids do not even make an attempt at looking like humans. They have humanoid shapes but the main thing is the synth brain that gives them consciousness. Robots are mostly straight up logic devices, whereas the androids have consciousness and emotional capability. "

Please, look at the Tech page to see what's canon. It's right there at the top, in black and yellow:

QUOTE: "An android is a synthetic organism designed to look and act like a human. The term 'android' and its derivatives refer exclusively for such machines, and are not used to refer to robots or other 'intelligent' machines."

Even the Model 2-E like Dolly's old chassis and the archaic Model Zero roughly approximate a human body (more so, at least, than merely having two arms, two legs, and a head). At least some effort was made to "sculpt" or streamline them to make them appear human. Hence, they are androids.

I'm NOT saying that Francine does not deserve the respect of being talked about as a person. But if her chassis does not resemble a human's in the least little bit, then the term "android" does not fit - even if she has a synth brain like Ada. Does she at least have a vaguely human-like face? That might be enough to make her an android.

The current, commonly accepted definition of the word itself is that it must be a robot (or synthetic being) that looks like a person (human or alien).

MY UNDERSTANDING is that the existence or lack of self-awareness or sapience is irrelevant to the term. Absolutely, there can be such a thing as a self-aware robot - if such a thing is possible. Just read any number of classic sci-fi novels dating back many, many decades. I'd mention the works of Isaac Asimov in particular, since he wrote the 'Three Laws of Robotics' and he did tangle with the concept of a robot with self-awareness. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd give examples of self-aware robots that are not even humanoid.

And, yes, it also bugs me that the huge popularity of the Android OS for mobile phones has not only made it difficult to Google relevant robot-related search results, it threatens to all but supersede the old usage.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 3:22 PM edit delete reply
@xpacetrue, so Francine drops from being an android to being a robot simply for failure to purchase a facial glamour upgrade?
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 4:01 PM edit delete reply
Well, Merriam-Webster (per their .com site) defines android as "a mobile robot usually with a human form". It does not suggest it must have a close resemblance, nor possibly be mistaken for human in dim light. I take "human form" to indicate the standard bipedal humanoid description: two legs, one trunk, two arms, one head with the legs used primarily for locomotion, the arms for manipulation, and the sensory cluster in the head. And all the mobile units in the hangar (excluding the Dart and CentComm's doll, of course) would seem to fall within that definition.

I agree that not all robots are androids. I further assert (using the above definition) that not all androids are persons and not all persons are androids. I am sure Google provides many examples of androids which bear strong and close resemblances to human beings. Your argument suggests that you don't consider C-3PO an android, while I would suggest he falls within the definition of possessing "human form". (I suspect we both agree that R2-D2 is not an android. ^_^)

Of course, as your reference to the Tech pages supports, there may well have been 'linguistic drift' in the DataChasers timeline to the point that 'android' is now exclusively reserved for those robots which could be mistaken for a human by a color-blind human -- in which case, as has been pointed out, Francine isn't an android even though the creatrices specifically refer to her with that term. I suspect that 'android', like most other terms is generally used in such a loose and casual manner as to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean, with consequent loss of precision, clarity, and accuracy that inevitably befalls. When you use the term, how human for you is "human-enough" to qualify? Do the legally required differences for androids in New Troy which prevent them from being mistaken for humans mean they don't possess "human form"? Where do you draw the line? Or is it a case of "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it?"

This right here shows why I like reading DataChasers. We've had discussions about AI's (Artificial Intelligences), Sapience, and many, many more. The only thing which is OFF-LIMITS!!!! is current political discussion. Which I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with.

There are several other commenters who I disagree with as it comes to our current political situation, however we all realize that the DataChasers comment section is no place to discuss our disagreements. We do NOT want to damage the flow and family feeling we get there, so we agree to not discuss such things.

Told ya...

Amy now owes Anne 50 credits.  That's what you get for betting against Ada.  If you want to know how well Ada, Noctis and Acantha's arrival are received, you will have to click on the link to DataChasers.

Ada's on it

And Ada IS the Ace.  To find out just why Amy and Anne think Ada is going to need the grapples, you need to click over to DataChasers to find out.

Firefighting teams?

Ada doesn't care if Kyle's Dart survives the trip.  As long as her Patient does, she's fine with wrecking whatever needs to be wrecked.

If you want to know what is going on, you need to click on over to DataChasers and to find out.

From the Comment Section

only one uses that reserve ,

TOP FUEL ACCELERATION PUT INTO PERSPECTIVE

* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower (8,000 HP) than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500.

* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.

* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to merely drive the dragster's supercharger.

* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.

* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.

* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug.
This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.

* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.

* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.

* Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have completed reading this sentence.

* In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 G's. In order to reach 200 MPH well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8 G's.

* Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light!

* Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load.

* The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM.

* THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000 per second.

0 to 100 MPH in .8 seconds (the first 60 feet of the run)
0 to 200 MPH in 2.2 seconds (the first 350 feet of the run)
6 g-forces at the starting line (nothing accelerates faster on land)
6 negative g-forces upon deployment of twin ‘chutes at 300 MPH An NHRA Top Fuel Dragster accelerates quicker than any other land vehicle on earth . . quicker than a jet fighter plane . . . quicker than the space shuttle.

The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.420 seconds for the quarter-mile (2004, Doug Kalitta). The top speed record is 337.58 MPH as measured over the last 66' of the run (2005, Tony Schumacher).

Putting this all into perspective:

You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the dragster at an honest 200 MPH. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment.

The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you.
He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it - from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race!

That's acceleration!

That was posted in the comment section over at DataChasers. In response to,

Now do you see why I say you REALLY want to read the comment over at DataChasers?

Dolly said the F- Word? - Things must be really bad...

To find out WHY Dolly has said the "F" Word, you will have to go to DataChasers.

What did you think Tennyo meant, Noctis?

Although if you know anything about Cassian's you know they can be quite literal at times.  And Tennyo DID just bring the head of Albinus still in it's helmet to you and Maxus.

If you want to find out just how she dealt with the Praetorians AFTER she disarmed them, you need to click on over to DataChasers.

While you are there, please don't forget to click on the Top Web Comics link and vote for DataChasers.